My guess: these men never learned how to maintain and care for a relationship or cannot stand up for themselves. At the beginning of a relationship everything is exciting and without maintenance (from both sides) it quickly goes downhill. I can imagine for some of those men this downhill part is their equivalent view of marriage / long term relationship. Which checks out if your experience is dominated by passive or active neglect from/of their partner ,
Depends who you talk to. Clearly your circle is limited in it’s views.
The honest truth about life with people is… it depends on the person. You and the person you associate with both.
There are valid generalizations to be made about the legal system, but in the end, it only brings OUT the worst in bad people, it doesn’t create them.
I have couples who are happy, I have couples that are miserable in my life. It’s just human nature. You will get a lot of variety out there. Choose better. No one can hurt you without you allowing someone to make you miserable. I know that’s not what people want to hear, but there you go. That’s the bitter truth. You chose to compromise, and the bill came due.
I repeat - the legal system is awful and biased. Yes. But it doesn’t delete the fact that ultimately you have a lot of choice out there.
FYI: I’m single, never married, and will never be. I don’t even date anymore. That was my choice based on the path I’ve chosen in life. It was a spiritual decision. Not because of my past relationships - some were wonderful, some were miserable. I chose bachelorhood regardless. That’s just me.
13 years in relationship, 3 years married, my life is better than I ever hoped for and most of it is because of my wife, zero regrets although hardships do happen, its all about the partner you pick
Abusive relationships and mentally ill women are more common than society allows people to admit.
No matter how good the benefits are, people in an abusive relationship can’t truly access them.
You talking to people who have encountered that. It’s truly incomprehensible to people who haven’t experienced it. Hence the wide uncross-able gulf between the two sides.
Just read the comments further down the chain about how people talk about men that express negative views of their wives.
If you don’t want to read the summary is :Those men are lazy alpha male trad trash with issues.
If you are expressing negative views about your wife why don’t get a divorce?
She’s perfect except for this one thing she does that drives me crazy.
Have you ever complained about work? Why haven’t you quit on the spot? Some people live by this and most don’t.
There is usually much more to people stories than face value. That makes leaving bad situations harder than it seems on the outside.
Because the married men you are talking to are either trash, married to trash, or are not compatible with the person they married or too early into their marriage to tell.
I can’t imagine marrying someone that I didn’t consider a best friend. I adore my wife, and my life is infinitely better with and because of her. Our first couple years were rough, but we’ve both worked to improve. We have each other’s backs, support each other through thick and thin, laugh with each other, and just generally compliment each other’s weaknesses with individual strengths.
I detest wife hating boomer humor because it has never once resonated with me. If you don’t love them and don’t love being with them, why marry or stay married, go be happy elsewhere with someone else.
Preach brother. I remember the first time going to drinks with coworkers when I was young and started dating my eventual wife. Every one of them wife bashed, had to get home to the old ball and chain. Constantly just annoyed with their wives. They would look to me and I’d have to lie about my gf because I didn’t have anything like that.
15 years later and every single one of those guys are divorced. Various factors but I always remember those evenings getting beers. Meanwhile I’m happily married.
You start talking or acting that way and soon the jokes become actual resentment, and once it’s resentment it’s a very hard path back. Over communicate and appreciate your spouse, they should be your best friend, not the person you complain about in a bar. Your boss should provide enough material for that role.
TBH I think you have it backwards. The resentment gives rise to the jokes, I think.
they should be your best friend
I couldn’t agree with you more. This is the person that you’re going to be spending the most time with out of anyone else in your life! If they’re not your best friend, tf are you even doing?
Hell yeah man. Work has always provided plenty of bitching material for me. If not my boss/coworkers then my clients.
I’ve been married nearly 20 years. My wife and I have been together for longer than we’ve been apart.
I cannot imagine life without her. And yes we bicker a lot, but I wouldn’t trade our connection and friendship for anything.
Except maybe to be able to talk to the dog.
Same. I adore my wife, fall more in love with her every day we’re together. It’s not always easy, but things that are worth it aren’t. Marriage is the best decision I ever made.
I did get married a little later than some, just had turned 30 the month before we tied the knot. Maybe taking my time and finding the right one helped, not sure. Just knew it was her almost right away.
Because we are lacking actualization. I will use I statements but there is LOTS of consulting with other men and reflection in this.
I enjoy making my wife and kids happy. I get some satisfaction from compersion. A lot in fact. But that is not primarily for me. I am not filling my own cup as it we’re.
But what I really want is to win women. I want the admiration and loyalty of women. I essentially want a harem. That is a huge ask and not realistic but deep down inside that is what I repress all day every day. I am hardwired to pursue women. I have found this to be true of basically all men in private conversation, whether they verbalize it in those terms or not. It is not politically correct and so crazy to say out loud that the very idea of my true sexuality is essentially a thought crime.
I don’t want monogamy.
I will never be really satisfied by sports or fishing or whittling wood or any of the things that we take on when we retire from life by participating in monogamy.
The grass is always greener it’s true and I think a lot of men have experienced loneliness and are happy to have someone. I have always had an SO and a waiting list. My wife is so incredibly good to me that I just can’t leave to fulfill myself. It’s fucked up honestly and I carry a lot of resentment.
This is just the part you asked about and there are complexities throughout but that’s the gist.
You are expressing something that is a problem for you. You feel resentment towards your wife because you can’t hook up with your waiting list? You need therapy, that is a very unhealthy way to live. That ain’t normal.
You sure are commenting a lot for someone that doesnt need therapy
Been there and did the work.
Makes it a bit clearer to see things. Expressing resentment towards a person for a reason other than their actions is not normal , fair or healthy.
You’re talking to the wrong people. My life got so much better once I got married.
Same, its been 20 years now and even though some times were rough, going through them with my best friend by my side made it so much better!
I have a coworker that constantly talks like this, has little good to say about current or past partners, and makes remarks like my decisions are because my wife would be angry if I did things differently. I’m sorry if you treat your spouse like a sex object, a source of money, or a money sink, but that’s on your relationship and choices and has nothing to do with me or mine. To be frank, I think this poster fits him well.
They’re probably talking to single people, who would say it’s great regardless.
Some people do better single, others in a couple, some in a group.
Doesn’t really matter and try to fit everyone in the same situation just leads to resentment
My life got so much better once I got married
Can you tell me more about that, if you don’t mind?
Can’t speak for them, but it increased my confidence and reduced my depression. But I’ve been married twice and the first one was very much not this. It has to do with the right relationship, not just being in one.
Respectfully, I don’t see anything in your comment correlating how you feel to the marriage vs the general relationship. Do you feel there is a difference?
What I was trying to convey was that being married to the wrong person left me depressed and feeling like a failure. It wasn’t the marriage, it was being with the right person.
I hated the games. When the commitment wasn’t there, I always felt like I was acting a certain way just to make my current girlfriend stay around. When I got married, the games stopped. Also, regular sex, not worrying about STDs, someone who was there to talk to all the time, someone to do things with, and someone to share expenses was a great relief. Don’t get me wrong, there were still plenty of rough times, but we’d made a commitment and I knew she’d stick around until we worked things out.
I always felt like I was acting a certain way just to make my current girlfriend stay around.
That is so sad that you felt that way. I never catered to anyone just to keep them around, and I hope you can learn to do so, too (like, actually doing so, not just avoiding romance entirely as a bypass).
Tbh, I was a bit of a jerk. I wouldn’t have wanted to be around me if I acted “natural.”
not just avoiding romance entirely as a bypass
When the only options are players of the game, it may not be by choice.
Please explain.
It is the best. Having secured relationship with the person you love the most in the world? How is securing the best relationship with an actual contract and a public promise not an improvement?
Years ago when I told coworkers I got engaged I kept hearing “you’re making a mistake” and “why?” I knew immediately that these dudes were losers that did not value their partner as much as I do. I could not imagine being without my wife. She is my best friend, companion, champion, confidant, partner in life among so many other things. Find the right person to share your life with, marriage is an investment.
Those trash coworkers are the worst. And they even try to give you relationship advices… (Eg. About how you should keep everything separate etc…)
No, I do not want to hear an advice on how to live a happy marriage from 3x divorced dude without friends.
I’ve considered it a good thing to get the “You’re making a mistake” pushback for things like marriage and kids. Because it is hard and you do have to give up and lot of things for it, so you had better be damn sure thats what you want.
You should be able to hear that (from certain types of people) and think “what the hell do they know?”. And if you do think “oh, damn, am I making a mistake?” then you should really fully stop and consider that question.
I think it’s easy for people to fall into the traps of thinking marriage and kids are just the next steps in life and things will get better when you’re married. Marriage doesn’t make anything better.
A lot of people say things like “marriage is great, but its a lot of work”. Those are the people that I’m like “really? Sounds like you maybe did make a mistake there” because (and I’m not expert, I’ve only been married once) it’s really easy being married to my wife.
A lot of people say things like “marriage is great, but its a lot of work”. Those are the people that I’m like “really? Sounds like you maybe did make a mistake there” because (and I’m not expert, I’ve only been married once) it’s really easy being married to my wife.
I think you may not be understanding the meaning of “marriage is great, but its a lot of work”. Its not like work meaning carrying lots of bags of gravel or something.
The “hard work” in marriage is being truly open to communication, working hard yourself to communicate accurately, and being honestly self reflective. Its recognizing your own shortcomings, and trying to better yourself, but also being open to being told by your mate where your thoughts or efforts or deficient. A natural human reaction is to be defensive, possibly even striking back with your own criticisms of the other person in the moment, but that’s immaturity. Its hard work making real positive changes in yourself as the result of all of this.
When you have a mate you love and a mate that loves you, you can know these are things not said in malice, but in a genuine effort to make you a better person. All of this is a balance with your own sense of self-worth and critical thinking to properly evaluate your internal and the external criticism.
All of that is hard work.
Then there’s another part too that I’m seeing in the years ahead: seeing your spouse’s health decline and being their caregiver as your own health is failing from age at the same time. Alternatively, being that first declining health spouse, and watching your mate grow ever more tired caring for you. All of this effort are expressions of love, but it is most certainly hard work.
I find confrontation pretty difficult, and I force myself to be direct and assertive about my needs and wants with my husband, because he deserves it. A common mistake I made in previous relationships was bottling up things I didn’t like, but that leads to resentment every time. I understand the value of communicating openly with him, even if it feels like I’m not being “chill” enough and he is receptive to it, but it doesn’t mean it’s not hard.
My husband has a similar problem with talking about his preferences, because he was always taught that they’re secondary to his partner’s. He finds it difficult to tell me that he wants to spend time on solo activities, but I encourage him to practice his hobbies. Even though he knows I’m happy for him to decompress however works for him and to engage in the things that bring him joy, he still struggles against himself to do it, for us.
I make decisions differently because of our marriage (I have pretty significant executive dysfunction, so these might not sound like struggles to others, but they certainly have been for me)- where I previously might have just eaten lentils in a lean month, I now push myself to work more to support us. Where I used to write papers in a 48 hour frantic dash, now I start earlier and make sure I can allot breaks for meals with him and a regular sleep schedule (we live in basically a studio apartment, so keeping the computer on makes it hard for him to sleep). Where I would have left laundry hanging on the drying rack basically until I wore it again, I now force myself to put it away as soon as it’s dry (again because of the space issue).
I don’t think the marriage certificate itself caused these changes, but knowing that we’re in it for the long haul changed how I think about my relationship with my husband. I realized that I needed to work on myself to become the partner he deserves, but other people might be able to get to that mindset without the permanence of marriage. I just wasn’t and didn’t realize it until it changed.
Each of those changes is a positive one imo, even without considering their effects on our marriage, and we’re both improved for having married each other. That’s not even addressing the joy of being able to fully relax with the knowledge that your partner loves, accepts, and supports you, and will stay with you, even if things get difficult.
A lot of people say things like “marriage is great, but its a lot of work”. Those are the people that I’m like “really? Sounds like you maybe did make a mistake there” because (and I’m not expert, I’ve only been married once) it’s really easy being married to my wife.
Just wanted to point this out. Life is supposed to be hard , Marriage isn’t supposed to be.
Nah I would disagree… 99% of marriage is just pure fun. However people forget about 1% that is relationship maintenance. This is work. Not the hardest work, but work.
But some people just ignore the fact you should take special care of this relationship. People can very easliy and slowly grow apart…
The hardest example is if a married person starys getting in love with someone else. This is common and noone is imune to this. However having a doscussion about this with your partner is unplesent and would more likely fall into a category of hard work as compared to category of fun…
Probably I am just disagreeing with the how much ‘a lot’ represents…
Relationship maintenance isn’t exclusive to marriage. It’s just a part of life.
also
married person starys getting in love with someone else.
Nah man. Not common at all. Not saying it doesn’t happen but I’d really need to see something that this is ‘common’
Relationship maintenance not being exclusive to marriage does not make it suddenly fun.
First do note I distinguish between loving someone and falling in love. My native language have two different words. One for the deep connection (being in love) and one for temporary feeling (deeply loving).
Married people falling in love (temporary feeling) is common. Not saying it happens to everyone every day. But you do not imagine people around you would often tell you about this really sensitive private topic?
Imagine you suddenly get a hot and a really friendly coworker that you have to spend time with them every day working on a project. It is in nature of falling in love to fall in love with a person you spend this much time with.
How on earth do you imagine there is so much cheating and divorce (especially with coworkers) in the world? People misinterpret a temporary feeling for a deep connection. And some even for destiny… This of course often leads to cheating.
I think we are again just differently interpreting a subjective word “often”.
In my opinion people saying marriage is happy but it is a lot of work just mean, you should not forget about relationship maintenance. There are reasons 40% of people in relationships end up cheating. And I do not believe it is because couples are just incompatible. In my opinion this is a natural outcome of letting yourself grow apart from your spouse. And not being careful about getting attached to new people. And both are just symptoms of leaving out the “hard work” of the relationship maintenance.
You can feel how you feel and have wants. It’s up to you to respect the other person enough to let them know they need to move on.
People don’t cheat because of a lack of relationship maintenance. It’s a lack of respect.
Cheating indicates a lack of respect for the significant other to break things off. If there is a situation where you can’t leave the relationship then you’re not in a position to cheat, because you can’t be good partner for the other person.
It’s the same as finding a wallet and taking all of the cash. You should try and return the wallet, not take the cash.
This is the same thing. Maintaining trust, maintaining respect, maintaining spark, maintaining romance etc… All this falls into a category of maintaining relationship. And failure of maintaining each category can lead to disintegration of marriage…
I think you’re talking to the wrong people, or you may be taking them too seriously.
Is my wife frustrating? At times.
Would I rather be single? Not even fucking slightly.
Same my wife is my best friend. She’s awesome and very supportive.
Maybe get out more?
I think there are many reasons.
Some people are legitimately miserable in their marriage because they shouldn’t have gotten married. They married for the wrong reasons, or to the wrong person.
Some people complain about their spouses because they think they have to. They do it like a bonding ritual. If you don’t join in, you get excluded.
Finally, since you say every man you talk to says being single is better, I think it might have something to do with who you’re talking to.
If you were talking to me, I wouldn’t say being single is better. However, I married the right person for the right reasons. I’ve been with my wife for over 39 years and married for 32.
Relationships require a certain degree of maturity from both parties. I know some people who have been married multiple times, and I used to wonder how they had the energy for a second, third, fourth marriage. Then I realized it was because they aren’t putting any effort into the relationships. They weren’t looking for a spouse. They were looking for a substitute mommy or daddy.
Grass is always greener, innit?
2 decades with my partner yes there are lots of unpleasant parts but sometimes you want someone to hold you and say everything is going to be alright and mean it. Is it incredibly frustrating my partner is asexual? Yes, but ultimately I sleep next to my best friend and know im safe and with someone I can trust.
I would guess is that the people most vocal about marriage are the ones who are the most unhappy with their marriage.
I wouldn’t know though, I’m not married.
This is true. Happily married people don’t really talk about it all that much. Source: am one
