I’ve got no problem with them, but these are obviously kids who grew up in a different age than me, and it shows, I know what could seem a joke to me could come off different to them. Especially this being In the trades and the type of jokes we make here. I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, we’re all trying to just get through the day after all
Edit: I have learned, they used to be female, transitioned to male. (So trans-masc? I’m probably messing that up) Lesbian, and non-binary, thankfully they brought it up which was very helpful as I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate to ask
You’re not a dick for getting someone’s pronouns wrong… You’re a dick if you intentionally and continuously misgender them on purpose.
Exactly. Sure it sucks when it happens by accident, but it’s to be expected to some extent. It’s when someone is doing it intentionally to fuck with you that it really gets under your skin. It’s disrespectful.
Well, I have had two people tell me very rudely that I’m an asshole because I got their pronoun wrong because they had it at the start of the presentation somewhere. And I also have had dozens more who corrected me politely a couple of times and then I’d just remember the right pronouns.
Assholes are assholes magrinalized or not.
Well, one thing I know is: make sure you don’t out them. If a kid has transphobic parents, you really don’t want to accidentally inform them their kid is trans.
I mean I just stay out of peoples personal lives as a principal
I’d avoid any and all controversial topics and just keep things purely professional.
Used to be I’d engage with someone based on their physical presentation, but even that is a bit tricky anymore, and with social media blowing up even the most minor misunderstandings, it’s best to just keep it professional.
Pick the one that’s been working there longest and ask them these questions. Check in they feel ok with how the workplace is trucking
“I’m not sure I understand, but am willing to have an open mind and listen and understand where you’re coming from. If you’ll have patience to explain to me, I’d be willing to learn with humility and humanity and do my best to be a better person”
Admit ignorance, commit to being a good person. It’s not that hard.
What’s with the unwarranted condescension?
It’s not condescension. That’s quite literally the point. So many people just refuse to be or have never learned to be humble. This is literally a great cooperative and constructive stance to take. You don’t have to be tough, you aren’t showing off to anybody - you’re asking somebody for help understanding them. If that’s really a problem, then you need to reassess how you navigate the world with others and why. If you genuinely do this for some trans kid, they’ll love you and be more than willing to help you understand because basically nobody ever cares about them or their experiences. You’d make their year (shit. If you do this for anybody and you’ll make them happy). But don’t do it just to do it, actually embody this humility. It’ll be weird at first, but you might even make a friend.
If your first reaction is to be offended by advice, maybe you shouldn’t be in leadership.
No one talks like this
Do you mean no one talks like this in your industry or company? You could always be a vanguard and set the tone. Also you don’t have to say exactly that, word for word. My point is to just level with them, admit you don’t really know, and then to listen and try to understand their story a bit. Even the notion in dude-speak or whatever will be heard loud and clear and you’ll make their day, and everybody will be happier for it.
There. Was that at hard?
It’s apparently easier than you not being a jackass, at least.
Edited. My intent is not to be a jackass, but to point out that SO many people use any excuse to not just bridge the gap and try to understand other people.
To be perfectly clear, though, I’ve been explaining this to people for years, and I’m absolutely sick and tired of the same old excuses and pushback. So I apologize if some of that unfairly came out here to people who are new to this and may be undeserving of that specific criticism.
Honestly, just tell them to let you know, in private if they feel it necessary, if you make them uncomfortable. In general, jokes about people being trans/gendernonconforming are ok, as long as it’s not the one “joke” – identifying as an attack helicopter/dragon/ridiculous things. Pretty much just don’t make fun of them for being trans, but it’s fine finding humor about their transition, if it makes sense. It’s generally pretty easy to tell when someone has a problem with you being trans and is going to be a dick to you under the veil of humor, and when someone is joking around with you. Just make sure they know to let you know if you make them uncomfortable, and tey not to be a dick. The fact that you’re asking makes me think pretty much anything you’d consider saying is forgivable at worst.
Edit: I kinda fixated on the joke part, mostly because everything else is pretty simple. If you mess up pronouns or anything like that, don’t make a big deal out of it, just correct yourself and move on. They’re just another person
I want to live in the timeline where a super-scientist gets sick of the attack helicopter meme and makes “attack helicopter reassignment surgery” possible and available.
Im trans with over 10 years of experience in the industry
–
There’s really not a lot to it. We just want a basic level of respect and empathy. Respect their chosen names and pronouns, and don’t ask them random questions about being trans unless they’re open to it. Trust them when/if they talk about their experiences, they know more about themselves than you do. Reassure them that their job is a safe space.
Happy to answer any questions.
Edit: if you slip up on name/pronouns, simply apologize, correct yourself, and move on. We know people aren’t always trying to be malicious. Hell, my dad still slips up on my pronouns.
Im trans with over 10 years of experience in the industry
The… trans industry? How much does it pay?
Depends on who you ask
Lol gonna get me a job forcefemming people
:3
HEEHAW!
And in what currency?
Blahaj and programming socks (the yearly bonus is a Thinkpad)
You’re convincing me to switch careers/gender
I almost forget the free fem&ms (breast mints) :3
Unknown lip filler shots in the parking lot of a Church’s Chicken
Is one tradition IDK how today’s kids do it
Just start saying ‘they’ for everyone that’s work related. No matter on LGBT status.
Makes it easier to not fuck up.Use they, unless you know their pronouns. Unfortunately, a lot of people use “they” because they don’t want to use the correct pronouns and it seems more innocent than just overtly misgendering someone.
As a trans person, no, do not do this. This is known as degendering people. It shows a total disregard for putting forth any effort to understand or respect others. We always know when people do this because it is still misgendering when you know their pronouns are not they/them.
While using they/them pronouns for all queer people or using a person’s name instead of a pronoun might feel easier for certain people, this is also a form of misgendering called “degendering.”
https://lgbtq.ucsf.edu/pronouns-101
It feels gross, it’s not a viable solution.
þey
I work with an enby and we use they/them. It often confuses people because sometimes we say a sentence then sub he/her for they and there isnt enough context for anyone to know who were talking about. I can’t imagine how strange it would be to only use they/them. Race and gender are our go to descriptors you’d get used to it pretty quick tho
I already do this with because of how many people I know and work with that have names not exclusively used by men or women.
I work with enough foreigners that I almost HAVE to do this since I rarely see them face to face and have no real indicators aside from their name. If your name is 20 characters long and 18 of them are consonants, I’m gonna use “they” at work, just to avoid any undue offense. So far, if someone had a problem with me it was because of my employer, not my own words or behavior.
It’s a good place to start. Sometimes a trans person wants gendered pronouns. But it’s better to use something neutral than to use the wrong one. I have always found that if you use the actual right pronouns, even once, it shows you are trying and that is appreciated forever.
I assume op is English speaking, but just fyi this doesn’t work in every language, would make things a lot simpler.
This they gets it.
you’d use something like “person” to replace “guy” since “guy” is not a pronoun like he/she/they.
I like them and folks
Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to do something along the lines of stating upfront that “if anyone in the company does anything to offend you, please report it to the appropriate channels. You’ll have our full support. We’re here to get work done, not to make people feel bad”
You’re not likely going to say by accident something they haven’t heard before, or to offend them in a new and novel way, But establishing and occasionally reinforcing the fact that they don’t have to tolerate it, that putting up with abuse is not part of their job, and that they have the boss’s backing at the same level of the non-LGBTQ employees should they find themselves being abused or offended, would probably go a decent way in minimizing the risk of something actually bad happening.
“… and if I accidentally say or do something offensive, tell me and I’ll try to learn better.”
This whole thread is very good
please report it to the appropriate channels
Telling them that you personally will be there for them is really the only guarantee you can make without blindly relying on third parties to act with compassion. So telling them to come to you so that you can then together go through the rest of the process is imo the better idea. They can always choose to just ignore you, but making them go to some shitty HR office by themselves also sucks.
Yeah, I’d only encourage reporting if I knew 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt that the person who would be taking the report is also an ally. And even then, I’d still hesitate to encourage it.
My workplace is… Interesting. I work in an arts department for an employer which doesn’t do a lot of art otherwise. Each department is managed by a specific person in HR. My department happens to be managed by a raging transphobe. We also happen to have the highest amount of trans people per capita than any other department… Because, ya know, art.
Our HR person requires that they use their deadname for all of their work stuff. Their work email uses the initials for their deadname. Their Windows username uses their deadname. Their RFID ID badge and name tag both use their deadname. Et cetera… She claims it is company policy to require official government names on everything.
Except it’s not. That policy doesn’t exist. It’s just something she makes up every time a trans person gets hired. There’s even someone in HR who uses a chosen name for all of their work stuff. They literally share an office. Our hiring manager has tried to go through or around this one specific transphobe multiple times, but gets bounced back to her every single time. Because apparently the “your department has a specific HR person” is a rule that is enforced throughout all of HR, but the deadname thing is only enforced by our specific HR person.
The hiring manager does what he can to insulate them from it, but there are certain things he can’t control. For instance, he orders them new custom name tags, so they don’t have to walk around with their deadname stuck to their shirt. But he can’t order new RFID ID badges, because those are printed by our IT department, and they use whatever name is in the system. He can’t change their windows username, or their work email address. To put things into perspective, our department is over 25% trans or nonbinary. That’s over 5x higher than any other department…
And what are those trans employees going to do? Go to HR to report it? As cops are fond of saying: “We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing.”
Re: what are trans employees supposed to do.
At one point the path was documenting disparate behavior and taking up the lawsuit path, but I’m pretty sure my employer could write transgender on the reason for termination line and the eeoc won’t touch it under this administration
You’re not likely going to say by accident something they haven’t heard before, or to offend them in a new and novel way
Not OP, but you underestimate my foot in mouth capacity.
20 years ago, my sister was dating a jock. Real body builder type. Probably a bigger musclehead than most pro-wrestlers.
What I was trying to convay is that we should make a superhero costume for him to wear, and make a comic book out of it.
What was percieved instead is that he should run around town and suck everybodys nuts in his mouth for their approval.
I DARE you to try to connect how that came out so wrongly worded.
You can’t just leave us hanging like that, how did you word it?
Well maybe only say this if it’s true
Respect them for who they are, and listen to them if they tell you you’re fucking it up, just like you would with anyone else. It’s almost as if trans people are just people. ;)
I’m trans. To me the most important thing about jokes in the workplace is when a cis person says something that I can twist into being a deadpan trans joke (of varying riskiness depending on the group). Either the cis person will softlock while trying to determine the ethics of laughing or they’ll go for it and potentially apologize. It’s always a win in my book though
Treat them like anyone else by default and make accommodations if you need to and it’s reasonable.
You’re asking with good intentions, but the best answer for any group will always be that. Shit, not even by groups. On a human by human basis just do that, there’s a crazy amount of human variation and it’s not always obvious.
First of all, good for you for asking the question. I think many people are afraid to ask these things even if they want to be respectful and inclusive for fear of coming off as backward or ignorant, but I think asking questions in good faith shows that we’re willing to listen and learn.
But most importantly, just treat them with the same respect you’d treat anyone else! Gender identity isn’t really that big of a deal, and after you get to know some trans folks you’ll come to that realization quickly that they’re just regular people!
This is not a comprehensive list, but you should probably avoid talking about your sex life.
good advice for any workplace
But I’m a hooker
then let your clients fill in the blanks, even if that’s letting them believe this is your first time. unless you think you can charoe extra for that. then do
In that case, you’re just talking shop
Yes.
oh hi mark
But how can I impress people with my competitive qualities? I had fourteen sex last night, and before that I did four sets of three sex at a time.
I’m even the speedruns any% TAS WR holder at 3.19 seconds.
Do my colleagues not need to know about this???
You can mention it by asking about office etiquette on Lemmy.
Ah nice one cheers friend!
If you wanna go the extra mile, skimming an ally guide for 10 minutes, looking up some terminology and concepts, would reduce awkwardness by a fair bit. I certainly would have avoided a half dozen missteps if I did some reading.
This is super helpful, thank you!
