Might help also to describe what you think feminism is, since it’s one of those terms that is overloaded.
I once had a physical therapist tell me she wasn’t a feminist because she thought women couldn’t be as physically capable as men when serving as soldiers, and seemed to believe feminism requires treating women exactly like men.
I told her I was a feminist because I believe in equal rights for men and women, an idea she did not seem so opposed to.
Nah.
For one, I don’t like a term that’s supposed to promote equality clearly favoring one side in its name.
For two, most feminists I’ve met genuinely hate men and think they’re owed superiority, not equality, for the treatment of women in the past.
How do you feel about Black Lives Matter as a name and slogan?
Do you think there might be a reason feminism is named that way?
Black Lives Matter is a fine name for what it supports.
I didn’t study the etymology of feminism, but in practice it has always resulted in fighting for women’s rights while ignoring or paying lip-service to men’s rights.
There’s no feminist platform that advocates for removing men from the draft or including women in it, for example. I don’t believe that the differences between men and women, especially today, are great enough to give any preference to one sex over the other. Most of us are suffering because we are poor.
From my experience, feminists will say feminism is about equality to fool people who don’t know any better into supporting a cause that is practically about female superiority. They believe it’s woman’s turn to be the oppressors and to them that is ‘fair.’
This is exemplified by how it’s socially acceptable (even encouraged) to make disparaging comments about men, but making similar comments about women will get you ostracized. You can’t say you’re for equality of the sexes if you laugh when somebody says “I hate all men” but get angry if someone else says “I hate all women.” Neither is acceptable, but feminists will disagree.
I like the Rebecca West quote: “I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.”
feminist as in “tear down unjust hierarchies”, and definitely not feminist as in “girlboss yay we need more ladies oppressors”
Exactly, also this “all men are bad and monsters” has to stop. This is not how you get the good men to help you stop and punish the bad men.
But yeah, fuck the patriarchy, women should have just as many rights and freedoms as men do, in theory and in practice.
reversing sexism isn’t a solution to any issue, it’s the irrational hierarchies that are bad, not the fact that it’s not your people on top.
also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard a feminist talking about “all men are monsters”, but I’ve definitely heard antifeminist men claim they do.
I agree, but sadly I have seen posts claiming that all men are monsters and lots of people agreeing online, and not just once or twice.
the funny thing is that now, me, a cis man, sitting in the loo, claiming to be pro feminist, is about to write “those aren’t real feminists”.
I’m laughing while writing this.
don’t take me seriously please.
You have not been on social media during that time period, maybe. It was everywhere which led some men to become antifeminist.
Yes, in the sense that I believe men and women should have equal rights. I suspect people who say they aren’t feminists have a different definition of it.
To be fair, the word feminist is super outdated, since it has the connotation of being for women because of the “femi”. Well… It kinda was during the feminist movements of the early 1900s, but that in itself was as a fight for equality.
Point is, I’d love a rebrand to something like “Equalist” or something better sounding but with the same connotations.
The term you’re looking for is an egalitarian.
I’m a feminist, opposed to any unjust hierarchy really. One of the things that set me off at a young age was how the US never passed the equal rights amendment.
Also in my home country the women’s liberation movement was tied up with the communist movement which also is why I have a lot of the politics that I do
Yes.
Down with the liars who are talking of freedom and equality for all, while there is an oppressed sex, while there are oppressor classes, while there is private ownership of capital, of shares, while there are the well-fed with their surplus of bread who keep the hungry in bondage. Not freedom for all, not equality for all, but a fight against the oppressors and exploiters!
– Vladimir Lenin, Soviet Power and the Status of Women
Comrades, there is no true social revolution without the liberation of women. May my eyes never see and my feet never take me to a society where half the people are held in silence. I hear the roar of women’s silence. I sense the rumble of their storm and feel the fury of their revolt.
- Thomas Sankara
Thomas Sankara was a true hero that was killed because he dared to threaten the status quo of “haves and have-nots.”
As a CIS male I consider myself a feminist because I recognize that women continue to face systemic challenges that demand more than just abstract ideals of equality. To me, feminism goes beyond egalitarianism. It’s not just about treating everyone the same, it’s about recognizing the different challenges people face and working to change the systems that create and sustain those imbalances.
I was raised by my mom and 3 sisters, and that gave me a front-row seat to the everyday injustices women face. Everything from subtle slights to overt discrimination to being victim of abuse. It wasn’t theory for me, it was lived experience, just one degree removed. I’ve seen the strength and resilience of the women in my life, and I’ve also seen what they’ve had to push through simply because of their gender.
Now, as a father with a daughter, I feel an even deeper responsibility to be part of the shift. I don’t just want her to grow up in a world that pays lip service to “equality”. I want her to live in one where she’s safe, respected, and empowered. That means doing more than being “not sexist.” It means actively pushing back against the structures and behaviors (the patriarchy) that holds women back.
I have zero tolerance for toxic masculinity and so-called “alpha male” attitudes that promote dominance, entitlement, and emotional repression. That culture hurts everyone, but it especially harms women by normalizing control and aggression.
I want my daughter and every woman to see examples of men who are allies, not bystanders. Feminism is a promise: to show up, to speak out (or more often shut up), and to help dismantle barriers so that every person, regardless of gender, can thrive without restriction or fear.
I consider myself egalitarian
I feel like the term Feminist gives too much of an impression that I tolerate or encourage misandry, which I certainly do not. That and if you look at feminist groups throughout history TERFs have been the norm, not the exception.
Egalitarian, because sexism cannot be tolerated no matter which direction it’s facing.
I believe in equal rights and opportunities for all, be they man, woman, in between or none of the above.
But saying (and perhaps believing) one is a feminist and actually acting like one are often two different pairs of shoes. We all are confronted with so much discrimination, with so much bias, with so much misogyny, it takes active labour to actually behave like a feminist, because no matter how you think about yourself, at some point and to some degree, all that shit we get confronted with every day will rub off on us, and we have to understand that and constantly check ourselves so that it does not influence us in our thought patterns. Constant mental garbage collection, if you want.
That is true for all kinds of discrimination, no matter what it is based on.
FYI you can’t be a feminist if you pay for the SA and murder of other women.
What is this referring to?
How dairy cows need to be pregnant in order to produce milk, so they’re artificially inseminated and kept pregnant throughout most of their lives?
Yes. They can’t consent and they are used like objects, only seen as a means of making milk and more cows.
This is insane. Why is everyone redefining the feminist movement!? Why so many “this feminism but”? Feminism is the belief in and advocacy of political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.
Do you believe sexes should have equal rights in society? Yes? You’re a feminist. Don’t be afraid of the term. That means that you bought up the anti-feminist propaganda. It’s like going about saying “I’m against the genocide, but not the kind where I hate the jews or support Hamas or terrorist but I believe in not killing children but of course not the kind of belief where I’d attack israeli sold…” Like wtf is this. That’s the definition. Stop tiptoeing. Call it out when you see it. Help your fellow human beings and keep on with your life.
There should be a different word that doesn’t favor one side if it’s about equality.
Anyone who is tired of people misconstruing the meaning of the word ‘feminism’ should be trying to find a better word that means what they are trying to convey.
Yes, my whole life. It’s how I was raised, but now that I’m an adult, it’s also what I choose for myself and how I’m raising my own children.
Feminism is the radical idea that a person’s worth, dignity, rights, and social status are not and ought not to be determined by their genitals.
I am a feminist because I believe men and women should have equal rights. I think a lot of people fell for the propaganda that feminism is about women over men or something. The thing a lot of men fail to realize is that “the patriarchy” hurts them too. A lot of the things you see men complain about like being told to “man up” or not being able to express their feelings without being mocked are 100% a side effect of patriarchy.
I would love to rephrase the word to “Equalist”.
Equal rights for all!The word you’re looking for already exists, it’s egalitarianism lol.
Well.The word problem is solved. Hooray.
Can the world now calm the hell down and just be peaceful with everyone playing nice? :(
Equal rights for all!
That’s what feminism is. That’s my whole point about people falling for the propaganda that it means something else.
“Man up” isn’t always about bottling your feeling like the US internet says. More often it’s “stop complaining and just do it”. And someone has to do “it”. And it often leads to growth.
The internet often distorts things.
As for the topic, I am a feminist. The first and second wave feminism, that is. The equality ones. Not the pink haired screaming “all men are evil and should pay” third wave. Everybody screaming “patriarchy” while sitting on their bed, not even looking further then that. Looking at everything black and white.
Actually, I’m kinder to women then men…
“Man up” isn’t always about bottling your feeling like the US internet says. More often it’s “stop complaining and just do it”. And someone has to do “it”. And it often leads to growth.
I’m sure telling people who are hesitant to open up about their feelings and want to express them more to “stop complaining and just do it” will definitely make them open up about their feelings. 🙄 Way to miss the point entirely.
Not the pink haired screaming “all men are evil and should pay”
I don’t think that caricature helps promote gender equality.
As for the topic, I am a feminist. The first and second wave feminism, that is. The equality ones. Not the pink haired screaming “all men are evil and should pay” third wave.
Actually, I’m kinder to women then men…
I don’t believe in an -ism. I believe in equal rights. I think the name feminism does more harm than good.
Why does the name do harm? If it was “anti-sexism” instead would it be more appealing, or are all “-ism” labels bad in your mind? (Might I ask why the -ism is problematic? Would you have the same view of anti-racism, for example?)
Egalitarianism is a better term.
That just erases that, currently, women are far more oppressed than men. Men are negatively impacted by patriarchal society as well, we all stand to gain from its abolition, but erasing that it is women that are most subjugated makes room for opportunists to coopt the movement and shut down women.
This.
This is the kind of thinking that pushes men away from feminism. When there is a clear intention to favor one sex over the other, the other will obviously be much less inclined to help.
There is no intention to “favor one sex over the other.” The present system is explicitly cismale-supremacist. Any attempt to erase that weakens the movement and serves to perpetuate sexism against women and non-binary folk. This is similar to the “All Lives Matter” movement as a way to disrupt the “Black Lives Matter” movement.
It might not be the intention but modern day feminism has become so much about what women can and cannot do and how men are pigs.
No, it hasn’t. This is the way conservatives frame the feminist movement, but the actual reality of feminism is far more grounded. When you cede the narrative and legitimize the conservative viewpoint, you weaken the movement.
I’m not OP, but many people associate feminism with strengthening women specifically. If you look up the definition it actually does focus gender equality, no matter what gender you have. So from my perspective the term isn’t really intuitive.
Another thing I don’t like about the definition (at least the one on Wikipedia) is…
Feminism holds the position that modern societies are patriarchal—they prioritize the male point of view—and that women are treated unjustly in these societies.
While I sure get what they mean, I personally don’t like to classify one’s point of view as ‘male’. I agree that there are far more toxic men that seek more and more power. But i don’t dislike such people because they are men. I’d dislike their behavior just as much if they were women, non-binaries or any other gender. Classifying a character trait male IMHO is similar to calling a skirt or dress ‘women clothes’.
So yes, to me personally, anti-sexism / anti-discrimination or even better pro-equality are more appealing.
Do you think women face more inequality than men? What gender inequality is there to address, i.e. why does feminism as a movement of gender equality exist?
Yes, I think women face more inquality than men. And queer people face even more discrimination than women. But also cis-men that don’t fit well into the traditional gender roles, can face discrimation. I do not object the ideology behind femism. I just don’t like the term.
I think women do experience more gender based adversities, but I worry framing it like that creates an “us and them” situation between genders. We should fight inequality wherever it exists.
It also misses intersectionality. Not all men are advantaged over all women. A man born in poverty, violence, with a disability, or of a marginalised race, isn’t automatically better off than a rich white women born to a good supportive family.
Women face different inequality than men. Where women are treated as valuable property, men are treated as disposable tools or dangerous threats. Feminism has done much to elevate women above valuable property, but men are still treated as disposable or dangerous.
Labels that start off as descriptive become prescriptive. People who associate strongly with a label are less likely to have nuance to their views or change their minds. It becomes us and them.
You can become a prisoner of your labels.
isn’t feminism prescriptive / normative to begin with? It’s not a neutral description of injustice, it’s a call to action, a movement … no?
I hear you on the strong connection to a label, the way us-them dynamics can be dangerous - but the extreme opposite doesn’t seem to work either, so I don’t see this as a full justification of rejecting labels. If you are invested in a movement towards equal rights, sometimes having a banner to organize under and communicate by is useful … it might be helpful to think of a time before the feminist movement existed, and the motivations that exist for the movement.
The fact that there are so many definitions of what feminism is, shows that the label is not super useful. If you say you’re a feminist, you then have to explain which version you’re taking about.
It could be anything from “people should be given equal opportunity” to the extreme “all sex between a man and a women is rape”
“isms” are useful, and the name feminism is perfectly fine.
No it’s not. It clearly favors one side, but then people are saying it’s about equality.
If whatever feminism is trying to describe is truly about equality, then we should use a term that isn’t biased.
This is the same as saying the “All Lives Matter” crowd were correct in fighting Black Lives Matter. Women are more oppressed than men, even if everyone is oppressed by the patriarchy.
Not really.
Black Lives Matter is a movement specifically to shed light on how cops abuse their power towards people of color and frequently go unpunished for it. Black Lives Matter is not about addressing how white people may suffer at the hands of police brutality and if you’re trying to argue that it is, then you’re either disingenuous or ignorant.
You do have a point though, where both feminism and Black Lives Matter focus on one group over people over others.
Feminism as a movement specifically sheds light on the systemic violence against women and gender-diverse individuals under patriarchy. That doesn’t mean men don’t also benefit, but it does shed light on the primary issue.
I’ve always thought of women as people. Wild I know. Also I’m transitioning towards being one so y’know, some selfish desire for women’s rights and safety too.
K but once you get there, you’ll tell us if it turns out you’re not actually a person anymore, right?
