For example, an English person called Bob might introduce themselves as “Bob”, whereas an American person called Bob might introduce themselves as “Bahb”. (Sorry, don’t know the phonetic alphabet but hopefully you get my gist)
Should you pronounce those two people’s names the same, with your own natural accent, or should you copy how the person says their own name?
Edit: I specifically picked a generic English name with different pronunciation across different accents. I know my wording wasn’t great, sorry! Hopefully the edit is a bit clearer.
Context and other languages
When pronouncing a name from a different language, I firmly believe you should copy the pronunciation of the owner of that name, and not Anglicise the name unless asked to. I say this as a speaker of a language that English people regularly mispronounce and even insist to me that they know the correct pronunciation of my language.
I’m one of these types of people, if I am around an accent enough, I pick it up very quickly, I cannot help it.
I’d likely pronounce a name the same as the person speaks it to me. Really depends on the accent/language and my correlating familiarity with it though.
You might have a fair point but who the fuck in the US pronounces it “Bahb”.
Lmao I don’t know why I find it funny.
Just said “hi bahb” to my grandfather bob and he told me he was going to disinherit me. But I digress I don’t know the phonetic symbols either.
Not if you’re from Bahstahn.
My neighbor introduced himself and his wife to me, and he says “Maritza,” very flat, and I say, oh maRITza" with a little flourish and tongue roll and he’s like “no, Maritza.”
They’re both Mexican and her name is pronounced the full way with their extended families, so I think the point was, don’t accent up the word I just told you. And I haven’t since.
So we’re clear, you should match their accent is the lesson here… Had he introduced her as maRITza and you responded “oh Maritza”, he’d have the same reaction.
Don’t correct someone’s accent, that’s what he reacted to.
I try to say it exactly like they say it.
I had a coworker named Mahmoud, and all my native-English-speaking coworkers heavily anglicized the pronunciation, removing the throat-clearing sound of the h, and changing the first vowel to like the a in “math” rather than like the a in “mall”. Whenever I spoke to him, I tried to copy his inflection as best I could, and and he seemed delighted, but I never clarified if it was about my pronunciation.
American Bobs are Bohbs not Bahbs that’s Babs
No. Even if it’s foreign, I don’t put on an accent. I Anglicise the name.
I have also a sinicised version of my name for the Chinese. I even introduce myself with it. I don’t expect any foreigner to use my English name.
Wild thought: this could’ve saved the Mitsubishi Pajero in Latin America.
As a classroom teacher for students who are >80% immigrants from non-anglophone countries, I can actually speak with some authority on the subject. I have many students who have traditional names in other languages, as well as students whose parents 100% just made up something they thought sounded nice. I am one of the few teachers who emphasises correctly pronouncing students’ names. If they put stress on the second syllable, I put stress on the second syllable. If they have a non-english phoneme, you bet I’m learning how to do the clicks in Xhosa, or the “ng” in Vietnamese or Maori. I work very hard to make sure I’m pronouncing their names exactly how they do.
I have had three students in the last month alone remark on how I am the only teacher they’ve ever had who pronounced their name “right”. I have a student named Djibril who had extremely poor relationships with most of the teachers in the building, but who always does my work, and he straight up told me last year that it was because I am the only person in the entire school who actually pronounces his name correctly. Everyone else just calls him “juh-BRILL”, when he says it should be pronounced closer to “JEE-breel” (with a lilted r).
Making sure you pronounce someone’s name how they pronounce their name can be extremely important to social relationships, and having an anglicised name attached to them against their will is often mentioned among memoirs of immigrants as one of the first and most alienating things to happen to them when they enter an anglophone country. It’s not about expecting others to cater to your weird name. It’s about people having a basic modicum of respect for the humanity of non-dominant cultures. In america, at least, this respect has never been a thing. From Ellis island literally changing people’s names because they thought they would be hard for “real” Americans to pronounce, to interning anyone with a japanese name regardless of how long their family was in the US, to the new fascist roundups of anyone with a name that sounds plausibly nonwhite.
So, even with different “accents”, I’d say that pronouncing it exactly how they say it can be important. If someone in Germany went to the trouble of pronouncing the ‘w’ in my name with an american “w”, I’d appreciate it, at the least, but it would probably also make me remember them fondly every time someone else pronounced it incorrectly accented.
Thanks a lot for the in-depth answer :)
IMO, yes. Proper nouns should be pronounced properly. I recognize that this has implications, such as:
MazdaMatsuda! But that’s what i believe.When i had a French friend named Marion, i didn’t call them “Mare-ee-uhn”.
If you get the chance, don’t be afraid to ask. People are usually pretty clear on what they will respond to, if asked. If the accent or name is too hard, you can work with them on a compromise nickname that’s easier for you and that they agree to.
I mean I’ll.try but I am not confident in myself here
My name is unpronounceable for most non-native French speakers. I tell them to not even try, as there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English. Instead, I introduce myself by butchering my own name, or by using the English equivalent to my name.
So, no, I don’t think people should use an accent of the origin language of a name. You can try, and I’ll even rate you on a scale of 10, but I don’t expect you to not butcher my name anyway.
“Crypto,” I say in a bad French accent.
lol, I tell em to use my first name
Ooh same! It makes me cringe when someone tries to say my name really well, even if I know they mean well, I can’t help it, it’s my French genes!
Nice try, Cuthulu
Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn
Yes
Renault Peugeot Rumplestiltzkin
You got any friends with a similar example name in French? Unless your name is Écureuil, I’m thinking it can’t be that bad.
“Moi, je déteste l’écureuil.” was my practice sentence to master that one and sometimes I’m still nervous to use it in the wild lol.
I’m told “écureuil” is an infamously hard word for non-natives. It’s funny that one of the hardest words to pronounce in English in my opinion is “squirrel”. At least for a beginner.
To answer your question, I was thinking about words with nasal vowels, which are non-existent in English.
“Enfant”, “informatique”, “un brin brun”
My own first name has a nasal vowel and in my experience talking to native English speakers, it’s seems like a challenge to them.
Interestingly I don’t find the nasal vowels hard at all. In Écureuil (and other words that give me problems) it’s the “u” that is the hard part. It’s projected to a funny place in the mouth for me.
If I don’t pay attention it naturally wants to sound like the “ou” in 12 which my wife gives me shit for :).
Yes you’re right, I bet the French “u” is strange for an anglophone!
The sound I have the most trouble with in English is “th”. When I try it it kind of defaults to a “d”. In France they usually pronounce it like a “z” instead.
there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English
LOL no. I was perfectly fluent in French when in high school and college. I imitated by best teacher, little man from Arkansas that spoke English like a squirrel. When he visited France, they didn’t believe he was an American tourist.
Great argument.
I don’t think English has any nasal vowels.
The ‘u’ is also non-existent
depends on name, but probably not, don’t mock people’s voices
Accent is not pronunciation, I try to get as close as possible as the originally intended pronunciation the person cast of their name, not mimic the stereotypical changes in the common sounds the person makes on the transcribed text of their name… I believe there is a difference
This. Forget about accent. Try to pronounce their name as close as you can to how they said it themselves. That’s what matters.
I will attempt to say a person’s name how they say it. If they say “call me [simple anglicized name]” then I will do that.
Most people seem to appreciate the effort. I’m sure my American vocals butcher some pronouciations, but I don’t make a big deal out of it and my work gives me a lot of chances to practice. I will always make a good faith attempt at last names.
I live in Texas and will pronounce food names of Mexican origin with a Mexican accent. Burrito, taco, chalupa.
For the food thing, as a Midwesterner I feel like I come across as making fun of the other person when I try too hard. Like the people who say “Bærthélōnã” after they get back from two weeks in northwest Spain; it’s not going to fit into my normal speech pattern, it’ll just sound like I’m trying to draw attention to it if I say “bûɽɽɽito.”
But for names? I dunno man, that’s your name. I don’t want you to feel left out if I’m pronouncing “Evelyn” and “Leo” and “Elliott” perfectly, but then I stumble over “Rekha” or “Urooj” or “Joãozinho.” I’ll try to at least get as close as I can to the way I hear you pronounce it.
I grew up here, being white doesn’t mean it’s not my culture. I don’t know jack about Mexican cuisine, but Tex Mex is my culture.
Yeah, if I was from the Southwest I’m sure it would be different. But as a Midwestern kid, our “culture” is almost entirely used to ferment milk for cheese.
I honestly feel like the “you’re trying to hard to pronounce the country/city/food name” vibe is silly anyways. If they pronounce it “Bærthélōnã” in Barcelona, then why shouldn’t I try to pronounce it that way? Especially these days in our hyper-connected world, I don’t really have an excuse of “well I never knew they said it that way”.
I don’t mean people who earnestly pronounce it the way they do in Barcelona, I mean the people who make a huge deal out of saying it as intensely as possible, trying to call attention to how well-traveled they are by making it sound super alien.
That’s where I land. I had one friend named Juanita who praised me for being the only one who pronounced her name correctly! Then I have another polish friend who ISNT named Chris. He’s very vocal “just call me Chris”
I’m interested in names because I personally am “Michael” not “Mike”
It seems like a simple thing but it isn’t. A name is only “the sound I make to get your attention “ if you shout @mike” I won’t hear you. It’s a very common name. I’m Michael not Mike.
Sure thing Mike /s
That’s the thing! It’s not annoying or insult to call me Mike.
If you shout “Mike” I’m not going to look because I’m not Mike. It’s not a personal preference. You might as well shout “Abraham” it’s not my name.
Edit: my point is you can call me Mike if you want. I don’t care. Just understand I don’t naturally respond to every variation of Michael shouted at me. It’s a common name.
My brain ignores names that aren’t mine. Mike, Mikey, Mickey, … you might as well shout Abraham. It’ll have the same effect.